Features

Saturday Deluxe / 23 February 2019

Kate Bush: Parlophone accused of not telling us the whole story

The news yesterday of Kate Bush‘s The Other Sides four-CD set kicked off an interesting debate about transparency and what fans should and shouldn’t be told about future release schedules by record labels.

Parlophone are accused of misleading fans ‘by omission’ – they knew (a reasonable assumption) that plans were in place to issue the four-CD rarities set as a standalone product this March, but failed to tell anyone when promoting the CD box sets, just four months earlier.

The case for the prosecution is strengthened by a strong conviction that The Other Sides was strategically placed, very specifically, with the second of the two CD boxes, which was full of relatively recent material – remastered The Red Shoes, the two year old Before The Dawn live album and the two long-players from 2011 (Director’s Cut, 50 Words For Snow).

But on the side of the defence, isn’t this just marketing? If you think something is going to be hard to sell, you need to find ways to make it more attractive to consumers. Moving 1970s B-sides and Hounds Of Love remixes from the 1980s away from their companion albums to box number two, was arguably a commercial masterstroke, ensuring most fans would have to buy both boxes and not give number two ‘a miss’.

And this brings us to the nub of the issue. Should Parlophone have mentioned that plans were in place to issue The Other Sides on its own? I would argue that if you were paying attention, the signs were there. The same record label made a point of telling us that the Re:Call compilations in the David Bowie box sets were exclusive. No such claims were made for The Other Sides, which in hindsight was a big hint.

Of course not telling you something isn’t the same as being specific, but it’s rather naive to expect the record label to lay out reasons why you shouldn’t buy their latest product. If you walk into a car showroom, and ponder buying the latest model, the sales person isn’t going to inform you that a face-lifted variant is coming four months down the line.

The risk for Parlophone is that they are seen as betraying consumer trust, being a little bit disingenuous but they will be well aware that fans don’t really have ‘relationships’ with record labels in the same way they form life-long attachments to artists and bonds don’t come much stronger than those between Kate and her fans. Thirty-five years between major live performances? No problem! 12 years wait for the next album? Take your time! No TV appearances for over 25 years? Whatever!

Our relationship with Kate is rather elastic, but it never breaks. She can frustrate and stretch our patience (no videos available on DVD, 32 years since her only greatest hits, etc.) but we know she is a unique artist and all these slightly weird decisions that don’t conform to ‘normal’ expectations are part of what makes her Kate Bush.

So ‘bad’ decisions are probably down to the nasty record label, and good things are down to Kate. Parlophone will shrug off a few complaining voices and will eat their cake and have it too. The standalone compilation will bring in more income, generate more publicity for the box sets. There aren’t too many down sides.

A few SDE readers have suggested that the standalone product was an opportunity to ‘correct’ the failings of the original four-disc offering. That was never going to happen. All of these sets would have been manufactured at the same time with quantities set aside for the standalone release. Also, if you want to really see fan disgruntlement, imagine if those who had paid £95 for the second CD box, primarily to get the rarities, were now confronted not only with a £20 standalone version, but a ‘better’ one with some extra tracks!

I bought all the CD and vinyl boxes like many of you (they weren’t supplied free by Warners/Parlophone) so this isn’t a case of it’s-easy-for-you-to-say. But do I regret the purchase? Not really. I’m a big Kate Bush fan and wouldn’t have been happy staring up at my shelf with ‘part 1’ of the remastered CD box sets and there being no ‘part 2’ next to it.

What I do regret is that the compilation itself has some failings. B-sides are missing, remixes are missing, instrumentals are missing and selections aren’t as interesting as they could have been. For example, the rare ‘bongo mix’ of ‘December Will Be Magic Again’ would have been a much better choice over the standard version. Not only is it a completely different mix, but it features a totally different Kate vocal with some quite obvious differences in the melody. The single mix of ‘Army Dreamers’ is nowhere to be found in this reissue campaign, despite being included on The Whole Story, and there is no place for the video version of ‘The Man With The Child In His Eyes’ which appeared by accident on some ‘love’ CD compilation a few decades ago.

Unless there are plans afoot to reissue the albums as standalone deluxe editions (this seems highly unlikely) this is all REALLY frustrating. If you’re going to do a rarities set surely have an ambition to get the rarest content you can find on it, not just a few bog standard B-sides and remixes.

So I will direct my grumbles at whoever compiled The Other Sides (it’s a B+ from me), not the marketeers at Parlophone, who were just trying to optimise the commercial aspect of these Kate reissues.

The Other Sides is reissued as a 4CD package on 8 March 2019.

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Kate Bush

The Other Sides - 4CD set

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12” MIXES

  1. Running Up That Hill (A Deal With God)
  2. The Big Sky (Meteorological Mix)
  3. Cloudbusting (The Orgonon Mix)
  4. Hounds Of Love (Alternative Mix)
  5. Experiment IV (Extended Mix)

THE OTHER SIDE 1

  1. Walk Straight Down The Middle
  2. You Want Alchemy
  3. Be Kind To My Mistakes
  4. Lyra
  5. Under The Ivy
  6. Experiment IV
  7. Ne T’Enfuis Pas
  8. Un Baiser D’Enfant
  9. Burning Bridge
  10. Running Up That Hill (A Deal With God) 2012 Remix

THE OTHER SIDE 2

  1. Home For Christmas
  2. One Last Look Around The House Before We Go
  3. I’m Still Waiting
  4. Warm And Soothing
  5. Show A Little Devotion
  6. Passing Through Air
  7. Humming
  8. Ran Tan Waltz
  9. December Will Be Magic Again
  10. Wuthering Heights (Remix / New Vocal from ‘The Whole Story’)

IN OTHERS’ WORDS

  1. Rocket Man
  2. Sexual Healing
  3. Mná na hÉireann
  4. My Lagan Love
  5. The Man I Love
  6. Brazil (Sam Lowry’s First Dream)
  7. The Handsome Cabin Boy
  8. Lord Of The Reedy River
  9. Candle In The Wind

135 responses to Saturday Deluxe / 23 February 2019

  1. Angelique Merkel says:

    So HRH Kate Bush who owns the masters of her albums and is licensing her music to Parlophone via her Fish People-imprint has been one of the last artists to realize that CD sales went down and are still going down dramatically. Therefore she tried to milk the market (as almost everybody else did) before it is much too late. She did not do it in style (omission of demos and 5.1-mixes, replacing Harris with the ubiquitous Bertie on Aerial). What do you people expect from her? And why are you complaining about her being as greedy as any of the multimillionaires who put out any kind of stupid product all the time to still make a quick buck?How many movies a la Bohemian Rhapsody will we see in the coming years? Word is out now that any legacy artist can make huge amounts of money by having her or his life turned into a drama for the big screen. Another Brick In The Wall, anyone? Having the Gilmour-/Waters-dispute displayed cheesy but nicely in another Hollywood-blockbuster? Or Kate’s reluctance to play the media game, becoming a recluse and being far out there anyway being made into a feature-length-movie? Either way, I’d say this: Let’s make Kate Bush great again!

  2. Jussi Pukkila says:

    Carlthulhu, I believe this list is quite comprehensive. I ignored “Un Baiser d’Enfant” (“The Infant Kiss” in French), alternate versions (instrumentals, extended versions, remixes, single mixes) and some other oddities.

    The 1990 box set “This Woman’s Work: Anthology 1978 – 1990” has (almost) all of them, in the order they were released – but obviously doesn’t include anything post-1990.

    It’s a bit hard to draw the line, should the big hit “Don’t Give Up” be in the list but not “Do Bears…”, which was a Comic Relief spoof not perhaps intended for posterity?

    The Empty Bullring [1980, B-side of ‘Breathing’]
    Ran Tan Waltz [1980, B-side of ‘Babooshka’]
    Passing Through Air [1980, B-side of ‘Army Dreamers’, 1973 demo]
    December Will Be Magic Again [1980 A-side, 2nd version / 1979 1st rejected ‘bongo’ version]
    Warm And Soothing [1980, B-side of ‘December Will Be Magic Again’]
    Lord Of The Reedy River [1981, B-side of ‘Sat In Your Lap’]
    Ne T’en Fui Pas [1982, original version, B-side of ‘There Goes A Tenner’ & ‘Suspended In Gaffa’ / 1983 remix, A-side]
    Under The Ivy [1985, B-side of ‘Running Up That Hill’]
    Burning Bridge [1985, B-side of ‘Cloudbusting’]
    My Lagan Love [1986, B-side of ‘Hounds Of Love’]
    The Handsome Cabin Boy [1986, B-side of ‘Hounds Of Love’]
    Not This Time [1986, B-side of ‘The Big Sky’]
    Do Bears… [1986, from VA ‘Comic Relief Presents Utterly Utterly Live’]
    Don’t Give Up [with Peter Gabriel] [1986 A-side, from PG ‘So’]
    Experiment IV [1986, A-side, from ‘The Whole Story’]
    Be Kind To My Mistakes [1987, original version, from ‘Castaway’ soundtrack / 1989 remix: B-side of ‘This Woman’s Work’]
    Walk Straight Down The Middle [1989, B-side of ‘The Sensual World’]
    I’m Still Waiting [1989, B-side of ‘This Woman’s Work’]
    Ken (From the Comic Strip fil “GLC”) [1990, B-side of ‘Love And Anger’]
    The Confrontation [1990, B-side of ‘Love And Anger’]
    One Last Look Around The House Before We Go… [1990, B-side of ‘Love And Anger’]
    Rocket Man (I Think It’s Going To Be A Long, Long Time) [1991 A-side, from VA ‘Two Rooms: Celebrating the Songs of Elton John & Bernie Taupin’]
    Candle In The Wind [1991, B-side of ‘Rocket Man’]
    [Sam Lowry’s 1st Dream/]”Brazil” [1993, from ‘Brazil’ soundtrack]
    Show A Little Devotion [1993, B-side of ‘Moments Of Pleasure’]
    Home For Christmas [1993, B-side of ‘Moments Of Pleasure’]
    You Want Alchemy [1994, B-side of ‘The Red Shoes’]
    The Man I Love [with Larry Adler] [1994 A-side, from VA ‘The Glory Of Gershwin’]
    Mná Na hÉireann [1996, from VA ‘Common Ground – Voices of Modern Irish Music’]
    Sexual Healing [2005, B-side of ‘King Of The Mountain’]
    Lyra [2007 A-side, from ‘The Golden Compass’ soundtrack]
    Tawny Moon [2016, new track on live version of “A Sky Of Honey”, from ‘Before The Dawn’]
    Humming [2018, from ‘The Other Sides’, 1975 demo]

    • Miguel Rocha says:

      Fantastic…thanks for sharing this thoughtful list! Take away the bombastic The Confrontation and the two terrible, IMHO, Elton John covers, and this is an absolutely sparkling collection! The Empty Bullring is sorely missed from the second box, but Humming (almost) makes up for the oversight. I’ve always adored Passing Through Air…so underrated. Reminds me of a lost Laura Nyro song.

  3. Carlthulhu says:

    What I would enjoy is to hear the complete non-LP tracks in order of recording. I’m happy to compile the songs, but don’t have the list. Can someone point me to one? Thanks!

  4. Mike says:

    It is ridiculous for people to be annoyed about this stand-alone rarities set on CD because the rarities are a stand alone set for vinyl. Also, it seems that the CD boxsets are an afterthought because the CDs were still in-print or can be bought used for inexpensive prices. However, almost every vinyl LP has been out-of-print for years–these boxsets were really more for the vinyl fans.

    • Wayne Klein says:

      Not really. The CD boxed sets appealed to a different market and the hook was the remastering (as always), the rarities discs.

      The OTHER boxed set is obviously for vinyl fans but assuming that, because the albums have been in print (not all of them were available or in print although, to your point, the original mastering can be had, generally, pretty cheap for the later albums) is absurd. Labels did this in the past and will continue to do so. Take a look at the inexpensive complete boxed sets of CDs Rhino has been putting out. It’s just a different market for the same music fan.

  5. Kauwgompie says:

    Maybe many ppl are bent out of shape because, as it is, the Kate Bush box sets are very weak to begin with. Ppl -KB fans- who felt like they had to buy the remastered boxes because they are lifetime fans felt cheated to begin with. Besides any unreleased bonus tracks and many missing 12″ versions, there isn’t even a booklet or a simple essay. Basically these box sets are nothing better than “The Original Albums Series” that cram 5 albums into a small box with paper sleeves around each disc. The difference is that you can pick up “The Original Album Series” for $10 wheras Kate is asking $60 and $90. Ok the KB box sets have 7 (part 1) and 11 discs (part 2) and are a bit more stirdy but that is where it ends.

  6. Paulg says:

    I fell for a similar marketing trick with the Phil Collins remasters a couple of years ago. I bought each remastered album as it was released as a double CD where the second CD on each contained demo’s and live tracks at an average of £15 per disc. At the end of the release schedule they released a box set containing all the albums as single CD’s without the bonus discs which is currently on Amazon for £10.99! I wasn’t that bothered by the bonus discs and had I known I would have waited.

  7. Cris says:

    @Rob:
    I think that when you grow up, you realise that in the end artists are, at the same time, workers, but INDEPENDENT (or free lance if you will).
    If they manage to hit the hit single (sorry) they could even decide to live the rest of their lives on the royalties from it. They owe nothing to the public. And in general, the ones who “give” more to fans are the real musicians, the ones that strive to make a living out of music not only creating it but also loving it, studying it, playing it (think also of the many “luxury” session men playing for the “main” artists).
    Whatever the creative capabilities of Bush or Sade, I don’ t really see them as ever having sweated it out, having been always surrounded by musicians/producers who could also compensate and suggest and improve. Mind you, the same is true for our dear David, but at least he knew it, was ironical about it, and gave full credit to his companions. Even so; I will not say that, certainly, to have clear ideas and creativity is not the main driving force (see David again, or Bryan Ferry, or Jamiroquai, where apparently JK cannot strum a guitar for good).
    Besides, if earnings allow artists to avoid alienating life on the road, to enjoy life, to create families… They are even more understandable. Who wouldn’ t enjoy?

    For example, for me, even football teams do not “owe” anything to supporters really, as you sometimes read in papers and as is the belief of hooligans, apart from a certain decency from the management in trying to do the best for the clubs in good faith and avoid them being disastrous. Even though there will always have to be a team at the bottom of the table.
    Different case is that of the footballers themselves as compared to artists: they indeed are EMPLOYED workers, as me and you. They do owe something to their company and employer, and should be kicked out of the team if they do not give their best. In this case I fully agree with you.

  8. Simon Long says:

    “But on the side of the defence, isn’t this just marketing? If you think something is going to be hard to sell, you need to find ways to make it more attractive to consumers. ”

    Or just don’t try and sell it at all? If consumers don’t actually want something, it’s bad business to even produce it, never mind produce it and then try and trick people into buying it. Do it often enough, and your business will vanish – it’s the worst kind of short-termism as opposed to trying to build a sustainable long-term business model.

    Speaking as one who did buy box 2 purely to get The Other Sides, I find this pretty despicable behaviour (particularly on top of the inclusion of BtD in box 2, which was completely unnecessary padding to bump up the price). It’s exactly the sort of thing I expect from record companies – the continual attempts to milk those who still pay for music by persuading them repeatedly to buy the same stuff they already have by adding “exclusive” content has been going on for decades. It’s not justifiable – it’s the sort of thing that encourages illegal downloading of the exclusive content, and risks alienating those who do still do the decent thing and buy music.

  9. Graham Robinson says:

    At the end of the day, all purchases of what are basically luxuries need to be made on the basis of “I’m happy to pay what is asked for what I get right now”. The idea that anything is really “exclusive” is meaningless. There’s always the chance that something will get re-issued in a different/better form down the road. I get why people are upset, but ultimately you knew it was “too expensive” for what you wanted, and you had a free decision to buy or not at the time. It isn’t even clear that this was a deliberate marketing scam – 5 months since the boxes were announced is quite long enough for someone to notice the “why isn’t it available separately?” complaints and decide to press additional for stand alone release.

    For me, the equivalent is those sets which bundle the “exclusive” 5.1 with a (for me) unwanted vinyl version. I’ve passed on Station to Station, picked up Rumours eventually ridiculously cheap (okay not 5.1, but you get the point…), and finally sprang for Aqualung only to see a “proper” release a little while later. Do I regret any of this? No – the decisions were the right ones at the time.

    As for Kate Bush, I’m still swithering. I’d quite like the second box for completeness, but there’s the question of how much the albums are improved over the versions I already have. Are Aerial onwards even remastered versions? I may just get the new set, and live with a slightly uneven shelf. I honestly don’t know!

  10. Rob says:

    I refuse to give Kate a pass on this. She owns the Masters. She most definitely had a say in what was and wasn’t included. I can’t help but feel let down and a bit annoyed with the work philosophy Kate and Sade follow. Any one who states it’s ok to take 8, 9 or 10 years between projects is clearly delusional, and I’m not talking about the “making a baby” period. If I worked at their pace, I’d never be able to keep a job. It’s a relationship between the person who creates and the public that buys the product and in doing so provides an income to the artist. What these artist need to realize is that we, the consumer, paid for their homes, vacation villas and the clothes on their backs. They didn’t get rich magically. Sorry, but they do owe their fans a certain sense of respect. Stop throwing out crumbs and half-ass compilations. Kate and Sade should Google French Revolution to see how that turned out! And what the heck is Fish People? I couldn’t come up with a worse name!

    • Nigel Day says:

      I’m still seething about the missing stuff and the ghastly version of The Big Sky bunged onto HOL.

    • Chris Squires says:

      But there is the difference in relationships that some people have with their (for want of a better word) heroes or heroines. I have never felt in a demanding or entitled state with Kate. I am certainly not delusional it’s just a different state. These days an artist can lose a fanbase with one misplaced tweet or 6 months of radio silence. Because the fanbase is fickle, 15 and under attack from all sides. Those that grew up with Kate (from 12 years old) were in a different time and over the years I have grown to accept it can take a while but when something happens it is wonderful (to me at any rate).
      The bit in your post Rob about us having paid for their “vacation villas” is utter tripe. The transaction was the music, nothing else. I don’t feel Kate owes me anything, and neither does any other musician because we paid for their work and I have had 40 years of The Kick Inside, 40 years of Tubular Bells (was only 6 when it came out and it took til 12 to discover it) and all of the years of enjoyment is more than payment enough. An artist spends a year or two sweating blood with talent that few of us have to create something and we only have to decide whether we want to buy it. That’s all. If we don’t like the album or the way it is presented we wander off to listen to someone else and might or might not go back. They owe us nothing else. In the cold light of day most artists would have no fans left if they had followed a path like Kate Bush. As we throw our toys out of the pram when we don’t get everything we want / demand in a timely manner. So why has Kate got so many loyal, patient fans? No idea. Maybe it’s because we understand the transaction.

      To have 20, 30, 40 years of pleasure out of something that costs you £5, £8 or £10 is a pretty astounding deal, a decent pair of trousers doesn’t last that long and costs a lot more and a pizza costs twice as much for a 20 minute hit. So I don’t care if we don’t have an album every two years or even 4 years or 5. If we don’t ever get another one that is also fine as the 10 I have have bought me more pleasure than just about anything else I have ever owned. Top Trumps, CB radio, ZX Spectrum, sex, Strongbow, a waistline have all come and gone but there is still The Dreaming or The Man with the Child in his Eyes. I will always have that.

    • Klaus says:

      @Rob:

      Your post gave me quite a good laugh this morning.

      Some of your points have already been answered by Chris Squires, so i only want to add that i find your comparison to the French Revolution absolutely ridiculous.
      Let’s think things forward: After sending Kate Bush and Sade to the guillotine (basically for not giving us enough cake) i assume you will proclaim the Female Songwriters Republic (FSR), possibly with Rihanna and Beyonce as newly elected leaders. They will ban anyone not releasing a new album at least every two years forever from the grounds of the FSR making you the Chief Prosecutor of their jurisdiction. Think of all the fun you’re going to have evading all those lazy b**ches of their town houses, let alone vacation villas.

      I don’t know about you but i sure as hell don’t want to live in such a country, just like i’m glad i wasn’t born into France at the end of the 18th century.
      Now go back to Wikipedia and look up a better comparison, will you?

      • Nemo says:

        hey Klaus don’t insult my country please.I think you are a biased view about the French revolution. the French revolution is not only the regime of terror. if you are right saying I am glad I wasn’t born in this country. I have to tell you I am glad I wasn’t born in England and other countries of Europe at the same era either way. have a common sense of reality and history. of course his comparison is a lil bit absurb then don’t be absurb u too.

        • Paul Sinclair says:

          I didn’t read Klaus’ post carefully enough, because it’s a little OTT, I agree. As a general point, let’s just calm down a bit, can we?! It’s a music box set after all.

    • Wayne Klein says:

      I also would argue that making these less than comprehensive in terms of the rarities is a disservice to the very fans that purchased these sets. They also substituted some single mixes for album mixes altering the original albums as well. They should have left them intact and just with the single mixes available on the bonus discs which were woefully short.

  11. -SG- says:

    Just to be fair, despite the omissions, this is a good deal, for all that waited, as for those that bought the box, well, life is short and you got in early…. no one forced you to buy it, if it made you happy at christmas or the time then it did it’s job. This is really no more money than going out for dinner, and it is still enjoyable the next day. And….still a much better deal than those recent Howard Jones boxes that came out last year.

  12. Kevin Galliford says:

    I was more than prepared to buy the 1st boxset as I don’t have all the early albums but after seeing Paul’s video on the boxset opening, I decided not to bother. I want it done better & more bang for my buck, as it were. I will just hang back for hopefully each album being re issued in the manner in which it deserves & what the discerning audience / punter demands.As for the extras, 20 quid for 4 discs of what is basically rare history is a steal & I’m more than happy to buy it.

  13. Griffin says:

    Wow, so many comments. I haven’t read all those. But this is my thought:

    I believe many, who wanted the remixes & rarites only, would not have bought box 2 if they know record company will be released separately only a few months later. It doesn’t matter whether Paul/SDE had the unboxing video (not everybody is following this site and/or has watched the video). So if no one (record company) has stated that the rarities set will be exclusive to the box 2 many would have assumed/thought so.

    It would be better for everybody if record company would have released all albums and the rarities set all separately. Then grouped them in 2 boxsets for a reduced prices.

    I didn’t buy the 2 boxes, although I wanted the 12” mixes. Now the remixes & rarities set will be available separately I still won’t buy it as it’s not worth it. I believe soon record company will release the albums again with more bonus tracks, remixes etc and perhaps with DVD and/or 5.1 mix. And then on the album’s aniversary record company will release them again with a few “newly” found unreleased or never before on CD tracks/mixes. Like the Donna Summer’s Another place and time. I’m afraid this is the way record companies do things now.

    And BTW someone complained about the error/problem in dropout/reduced/decrease in volume in the left or right channel on some CD’s in these 2 Kate Bush boxes. So I definitely won’t be buying any of them. Record companies are digging their own graves with their “marketing” tricks by milking us the fans.

    And RE-master is nothing but asking someone else to mix the album again then the original album producer and/mixer. It doesn’t mean the sound is better/improved.

  14. Kauwgompie says:

    I don’t know why Kate Bush would be let off the hook here. She surely has a say in this. One could argue she has a part in “fooling” her fans. Nothing horrible was done here but I find it sneaky and unnecessary.

  15. Quante says:

    I enjoy reading these opinion splitting debates. Perspective sometimes gets lost when writing about this additional £20 release. Luckily it’s not a major life issue, so why such angst?

    ‘And I cannot forgive Kate Bush.’ – jmurillo. Sorry for picking your quote out jmurillo, as others have expressed their frustrations, but I reckon one listen to Kate on Don’t Give Up will ease the pain…..

    rest your head
    you worry too much
    it’s going to be alright
    when times get rough
    you can fall back on us
    don’t give up
    please don’t give up

    FrenchDuke79 asks a fair question as why is Kate herself not criticised more?

    For me it’s that Kate has only been a power for good- wonderful, utterly unique music being at the heart of it; private – leading a ‘normal’ family life, in an age of social media hyperbole; kind – her recent pop up shop benefitted Crisis to the tune of £60,000; smart – she never wore out her welcome, always leaving us wanting more. Has there ever been a more emotional reaction at a concert than there was at the Before The Dawn shows? – not in my experience.

    Kate is flawed – she’s human, and her choices around releases sometimes don’t match ours; but she puts out what she wants and we really are lucky to have had so many great records to enjoy.

    I’m not a fan for a new Kate Bush compilation / greatest hits. Her albums are all best listened to as a whole. Pink Floyd is another band where the music is best listened to album by album, and not on their Echoes compilation.

    Sonically I’ve loved the quality of the remastered sound. Never For Ever, The Kick Inside, The Dreaming all sound amazing.

    I’m also a huge fan of The Sky of Honey (2nd album on Aerial) and 50 Words For Snow. They are as good as any of her other classic albums. Roll on to the next Kate album – I can wait. Vive Kate Bush.

  16. Ross Baker says:

    I totally understand both sides of it, but I don’t think it’s necessarily a balanced issue. Parlophone’s decision is understandable from a business perspective, but it doesn’t mean it’s a decent thing to do. Anyone surprised that a label behaves in this perspective is being naive, but it’s still shitty, and defending it with “labels always do shitty things” doesn’t make it any less shitty in itself.

  17. Bob M says:

    With all the fuss about the box sets, the singles missing, the new Other Side, and the lot, one thing that bothered me the most is the audio quality of these releases. Doing side by side comparisons of the albums, there is very little improvement, certainly not enough to get really excited about. I think it is another case of plastering the term remaster all over things but not really giving the audio its due. I would have wanted remixed versions included in these sets, and hopefully they would sound as good as they should. It seems to me in general that these days tagging something as a remaster is nothing more than a marketing ploy to get fans excited so they want to re-buy again (and in many cases, again AND again). When CDs first started to appear, the sound on many of them was lacking. Mainly in the 90s, when remasters started to surface, by and large they sounded much better, with tape hiss eliminated and some care applied; ADD indicated a remix of the master. Soon, however it seemed many reissues of those reissues had little to add, and extra tracks were the draw. The emphasis for improved audio started to wane, and in a lot of cases, disappeared all together. You rarely read a reviewer talk about audio quality of releases, unless you go to a Classical site. I think it is a shame.

    • Paul Sinclair says:

      ADD doesn’t indicate a remix, it just means that the original recording was mixed digitally.

    • Chris Squires says:

      I don’t know what you are listening to or how you are listening to it but on Vinyl, particularly box I the difference is immense. Absolutely stunning in places.
      It’s all personal of course but having lived with 9 different vinyl copies of TKI this is the best by a distance.

    • Dean O says:

      My last comment on this – we know these companies have to make money to survive. I just find in this case there were too many efforts to pull the wool of the fans eyes; putting Other Sides in a not very attractive 2nd set to sell it/then bringing it out on it’s own later, the Other Sides being on four discs instead of only the two necessary (we’re not that dumb), scant on recorded material, scant on booklets/pictures/no write ups.

      It’s Kate Bush….her music is chock full of great music/instrumentation/effects and we’ve all heard good remastered product (Prefab Sprout, XTC, Beatles, ABC) and our expectations were high because up to this point her music hadn’t been remastered/improved.

    • Doug says:

      Must say I tend to agree with Bob M regarding the CD versions. I have bought the remastered Lionheart and Hounds Of Love CDs and have done comparisons with earlier versions using an Arcam Blu-ray player, Audiolab amp and Sennheiser headphones. I find some slight enhancement at the bass end but little else and I can’t decide whether this actually helps the overall sound quality as I occasionally think the textures are more muddy on the remasters. Of course I realise this is entirely a subjective view and I’d be interested to hear what other people think.

      I have no experience of the vinyl versions, only CD, but it seems from most comments I’ve read that the vinyl remastered versions are an improvement.

  18. Ged says:

    It’s simply just Strategic Marketing and it’s not a new thing, particularly with artists with a large, loyal fan base. I bought both CD boxes before Christmas, not at all life changing remasters either, is it really so difficult to produce hybrid SACD/CD? I would have much preferred Master Quality High Resolution, that would have made them worth the price. It is a bit of a kick in the teeth but, after 30 years (especially the last 20), I’m used to it, so it’s not so painful. If I’d known, I’d only have bothered with the rarities and the Ariel redux from box 2. At least Warner used to be upfront about money for old rope with their Warner Strategic Marketing releases (not sure if that imprint still exists).

    • Bart says:

      Sacd ? Really? And how many will buy sacd version? With CD sales shrinking every year record labels are not interested in manufacturing sacd anymore. SACD failed badly because IT was introduced in times of Internet boom. Then came piracy and sacd died. Today is like zombie format.

      • Doug says:

        In fairness Ged says “hybrid SACD/CD” not just SACD.

        It’s true that SACD or hybrid CD/SACD rarely get released nowadays for pop/rock releases but hybrid CD/SACD is still standard for all releases on some classical labels (e.g. BIS and Chandos). These hybrids play on ordinary CD players, of course, but offer higher resolution audio for those who have suitable equipment. It’s a win/win situation. If some of the major rock/pop labels had done the same it wouldn’t be such a niche format.

        • Wayne Klein says:

          Actually for reissues Mobile Fidelity is STILL releasing SACD/CD hybrids as is Intervention.

        • Ged says:

          @Doug
          “It’s a win/win situation”

          I’ve been saying this for years and I really can’t understand it, I don’t know if it’s cost prohibitive. I can’t see any reason not to make hybrid pressings of everything that gets released, ideally it should be common practice; just market them as common CDs and those who don’t care about Hi-Res would be none the wiser about the SACD compatibility.

          BTW – has anyone bought any of Kate’s 24 bit remaster download files? I’m not sure if they are just upsampled or genuinely do sound richer than the 16 bit CDs? Shame they’re not 96 or 192khz.

  19. Chris Squires says:

    So many interesting comments here.

    It is business though and if any business laid out it’s thoughts for the next year or the next campaign in advance so nobody spent a penny more than they had to they wouldn’t be a business for very long. We are not victims in this, we are consumers and we have the choice to buy or not to buy. They create a product that they hope we will buy and it is up to us from that point onwards.

    No business would broadcast this 4 months in advance. No one would buy anything and they would go out of business. In essence what some are demanding here is that record companies commit financial suicide so that we can save a few bob. The phrase “lying by omission” is such a pile of codswallop.

    Anyone with half a brain knows that most new releases will be cheaper after a few months, weeks or even in some cases a few days after launch and yet we still want product as early as we can get our greedy little hands on it. So we pay ££64.99 for the new set by our favourite group that can be had for £50.99 two weeks later and we moan about it as if we have no learning capacity and it isn’t our fault. Maybe we just have to admit to ourselves that we are greedy and we want everything at rock bottom and we have no willpower but then it’s easier to blame someone else that “we never saw that coming” than “I should have thought about it a bit more”.

    At the sharp end of the stick they would have been stupid to say “But the best bit of this will be available in 4 months on it’s own”. It was our choice to buy or not to buy. Paul pointed out that it had a barcode when he did the unboxing. We have to be smarter and stop the blame game. And as for those who are throwing the toys out of the pram “I’ve been a fan for 40 years but I will never buy another of her records”…overreaction?….If you wanted these 4 discs so badly that you were prepared to pay £70-odd quid for it and you wanted it NOW then that is part of the deal. We are not all 5 years old. We can say no, not yet or never.

    • Kauwgompie says:

      @Chris, I think it is totally fair as a consumer to want to buy a product at the lowest price. Just as it is totally fair for a record company to want to make money. Nothing about this is horrible or life threatening so we all should chill out a bit. Personally I’m annoyed as I feel somewhat duped. It feels sneaky to me.

      Most boxes typically have a “box-only” element, if not they are pretty weak boxes (sorry Kate, keeping it real). If you then take that box-only element out and release it separately without announcing at the time of the box set release, it feels sneaky and also devalues the box set. If you buy an occasional box set, you may shrug it off but if you support the record companies time and time again, over & over, I want a little more respect.

  20. Wayne C says:

    Even though I didn’t buy this box set I personally feel that there will be a lot of people who haven’t got a problem with the position of the record company, after all it’s a business at the end of the day and they are there to make as much money as possible on the product they sell. I see it like this – many Kate fans would no doubt have already had these releases and only wanted the rare material but wouldn’t buy again just to get hold of the rare stuff. I bet there are many fans whom are just happy to have waited for this news as it’s saved them £50 or so which is a lot of money to many. I have bought countless box sets over the years only to find out a few months to a year after that they are re issuing a fuller set (remember the Sting Vinyl box set of a few years back!), I bought that on release and ended up paying out again. It isn’t perfect but it’s the way of the World. I for years have wanted complete vinyl box sets by certain artists (Led Zeppelin) and they never see the light of day but I wouldn’t buy any of the recent bloated SDE boxes due to not being able to afford them. There will be some winners in this fans wise, those who like me cannot afford the full price. Content and happy to have waited for this, whether it’s not to everyone’s liking or not it’s better than nothing at all, it isn’t ideal for sure to some , maybe a little sneaky to others but sadly it’s how things occasionally work. If the record company had said on release this will be coming out in a few months time then the Box set ll would have not sold as many copies for the reasons I’ve mentioned – it just wouldn’t happen. If I was selling it I wouldn’t say buy this now but in 6 months what you really want is coming out and save yourself some outlay. It isn’t realistic to expect such honesty.

  21. Rickjapan says:

    Umm, after having read all the comments, I still can’t make up my mind how “wrong” this is.

    I have a gut feeling of ‘you dirty bastards’ for kind of fleecing people by the way it was done, but also can understand all the arguments refuting this, not to mention Paul’s analysis and the fact that I was prepared to fork out for the second box set mainly for the 4 extra discs, but also to complete the set with the first box, this being Kate and everything.

    If I had known from the start that The Other Sides would be sold separately from the box set, would it have influenced me? There’s definitely a possibility, considering that the rest of the content wasn’t as in need of remastering as the first set. But I think I might have ended up buying the box set anyway, see above.

    However, one point that I haven’t noticed being raised by anyone is the This Woman’s Work boxset. This had a couple of CDs of bonus material (more than The Other Sides, as some people have pointed out) which were never released separately, so that (to me) also seemed like a big flag that The Other Sides probably wouldn’t be released separately. I know there’s no rule that you have to things the same way every time, but it definitely influenced my way of thinking when these latest boxsets were announced.

    So, to sum up, I feel kind of ripped off (and would have liked more material on The Other Sides in total), but am happy to have what’s available and am determined to enjoy it! The woman really is a genius.

  22. David says:

    If this is not a marketing ploy, how come parlophone didn’t issue this CD at the same time as all the stand alone CDs that came out at the same time as both box sets?, it’s a blatant attempt to get everyone to part with their cash for the whole of box 2, I held off buying it til last week and got a copy for £60, which I felt is a fair price, I would have still bought the box even if The Other Sides had been available before as I collect Kate releases, but I totally understand why some fans are feeling ripped off.

  23. jmurillo says:

    I think it is also good to express our opinions but we should never attack someone’s other opinión. We all deserve respect about them. And we are all in the same boat, we are all collectors who love music and buying physical formats.

    I know this is not a fair world but I still think that what the Record Company did was not fair enough and that’s just my opinion. I now think that the whole CD boxset campaign is pointless from a collector point of view. The only purpose was to get more money from collectors who love boxsets. The Record company could have issued the CDs separately since the beginning without the bxoset campaign and that was it. People like me who have all CDs would have only bought all the CDs up to Aerial (not including it) because of the remasters. And even though I also have TWW boxset, I would have bought the rarities 4CD because there were several songs not included in that boxset. There is nothing special in the new boxsets, not even a book unlike many others boxsets. So, I feel cheated and I think this boxset releases are a whole deception.
    And I cannot forgive Kate Bush. I don’t know if she has been involved or not (or to what extent) in this campaign but I think we deserved something better.

    Just to finish, thanks to a lot to Paul Sinclair and to his wonderful website for allowing me to express my opinion and for keeping me updated on all future releases.

  24. Michael Leek says:

    I only have box set I and HoL on vinyl.
    Are the contents of box IV available as individual vinyl LPs – wouldn’t mind the 12 inch remixes.
    Looks like a (missed) opportunity for at least one more sale…

  25. James says:

    If you’re a fan of a certain artist/band you always buy something when it comes out. I only have certain artists I will buy without regret or anger. This is not the first time and it won’t be the last. Is it frustrating sometimes, yes. But if you’re a diehard fan you will buy everything released. I think record labels should be cautious as less physical product sells each year. I’m grateful to be able to get physical copies.

  26. mark says:

    I wish they would be up front with some of the stuff released for RSD as well. You spend the time and effort to get something only to find out that its being released again later on in the year…ok it might not be the coloured, picture disc version or what ever is released for RSD but it would still be good to know..point in case The Cure mixed up vinyl.

    • Guy says:

      To be fair The Cure’s record company did have ‘previous’ on this as they followed up their Greatest & Acoustics Hits pic disc vinyls on RSD 2017 with standard blacks a few months later.

  27. alan hansen says:

    if this upcoming set contained additional/bonus material not found in the previously released box sets, making those first sets redundant; i would feel very different about this discussion.

  28. P says:

    “But there is a way to be dishonest without lying actively: choosing to say nothing is about the same as an open lie a lot of the time.”

    – Laura June

    Pertinent/central to integrity. B/c:

    “If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don’t have integrity, nothing else matters.”

    – Alan Simpson

  29. -SG- says:

    Well, this is the story with physical media. Prices get discounted after a while. These sets were not really conceived in a way that gave anyone what they really wanted – a full and comprehensive reissue. The halfhearted nature and high cost probably took a toll on the units sold. Christmas is over and the reviews are in: It is not a flat transfer, the artwork is altered and the rarities are not all compiled. The basic 7″ and 12″ material are entry level rarities, and everything should have been there, there is no real excuse for that. Album track listings should have been unaltered, and have a full dynamic range. The CD boxes were ugly, so now this incomplete somewhat bloated 4 disc rarities set that is really all of 2 CD’s of material is available on it’s own. Again the Cd looks like an afterthought to a vinyl reissue campaign. The albums will likely be reissued again at some point either digitally or in premium priced individual boxed sets, perhaps with alternate mixes and demos, and pretty pictures, if they are wise, that time should come sooner than later.

    • Michael says:

      “…if they are wise..?” Come on now, look at the responses here to them separately releasing the most prized if underwhelming element of the second boxset. Can you imagine the reaction if Kate started super-deluxe-ing each album now we, or at least the majority, have shelled out for one if not both sets not to mention how much people have spent buying up the vinyl? While I’m glad I have the first box, it should’ve been one box only: the 9 studio albums and an exhaustive rarities collection, not the split that was presented (a very sneaky way to palm off too many copies of BTD and DC).

      I’ve worshipped her since I heard the first tinkles of Wuthering Heights (yep she’s been the soundtrack to my life) but expanding each one would pushing it too far even for me. I’m glad I waited (Paul’s unboxing video convinced me to) and I’m sorry for those that are annoyed.

  30. J says:

    So here is me being glad I am not a Kate fan. What a disaster!! Bob Dylan & Columbia would never do something weird like this.
    J

  31. Scott says:

    An interesting age old debate and some salient points Paul. In my experience this nearly always happens (DOA excluded). The artist and the record company both would have a say here and there would be a launch and extended marketing plan where often the more unique and sellable content may be individually released later (and also targeted at the next fanbase after the uberfans have paid out the bigger biccies for the box)

    At the end of the day I am just happy to have this output on CD. As a purist however my beef would be why tracks are excluded when there is room especially stand alone tracks. All they would have to do is use a forum like SDE to get feedback here and then you have an invested audience as well. Why record companies don’t do this more often amazes me.

  32. Herb says:

    FrenchDuke79:
    These reissues don’t have lousy packaging. I have the vinyl and they all look fantastic. Also there aren’t spelling mistakes (plural), there was ONE spelling mistake and it didn’t even affect all copies. As for cropped artwork, again this criticism does not apply to the vinyl only the CDs. On top of that, the cropping was a deliberate decision, not a mistake. It was reworked to look better at CD size, something that was also done with some of the original Kate CDs. You may disagree on whether it’s actually an improvement, but that doesn’t make it a screw-up.

  33. poptones says:

    Totally agree with Paul. I wonder what fans expected? The label was supposed to advise you to keep your cash and wait for a separate rarities 4 cd compilation ? C’mon! If you put your car on sale for £5000 and you know your neighbour has the same car and he told you he needs cash and he will sell it for £4500 and the next day you have a potential buyer on the phone, will you tell him he can buy the same car £500 cheaper from your neighbour? I’m sure 95% of the readers here wouldn’t!

    I won’t blame Parlophone for their marketing strategy. There was no reason for them to announce that 4 CD release. Not to mention, it happens often. An artist release his new album. it’s acclaimed and succesful, he goes on tour and a few weeks later you have the same album available with bonus tracks (either a bonus CD with single b-sides and/or live songs or just an expanded edition). Morrissey with his latest album, Low in highschool, comes to mind with its 9 bonus tracks and a different cover to boot! And only 9 months after the original release.

    And frankly, if it was just about marketing and money, instead of 4 vinyl and 2 cd box sets, Parlophone could have released everything in one single box set like Pink Floyd did with Discovery. Instead of two box sets priced respectively £60 and £90, there could have been just one box set priced £150 and you would have had to pay £150 to get the rarities.

  34. Mr Martin J Power says:

    I don’t know why anyone would be surprised? Seriously with Kate Bush’ control can anyone say she would not have been aware? regardless it is marketing and her work – if you are a fan suck it up. She is no different to McCartney and his work/methods. Similar to Bowie on RSD – The vinyl is limited and in the knowledge that the live albums will come out eventually on cd later.

    In this case – I think they have been limited with a release schedule but if it doesn’t say limited then it isn’t!!

  35. Gisabun says:

    How many times have you seen record labels say an item is exclusive to a box set or we assumed it was only to have it released anyways? Sometimes they will say “But the fans were howling that they want it” but was it the plans all along?
    Not saying it’s the same thing but why was it so long between Macca’s Egyptian Station and the box set that was recently announced? I can see the label doing it because first the crazy/big fans will buy regular release and then buy the box set. So that’s two sales instead of one.
    Recent releases from The Doors have the LP/CD coming first and stand-alone CDs coming after.

  36. Steve Benson says:

    Agree with comment about wanting a comprehensive best of – something like Led Zep’s Mothership. Two CDs of singles and best album tracks and a DVD. Of course the one album track you’d really want would be left off…

  37. Zongadude says:

    In the meantime, I doubt many people bought the box sets just to get the ‘rarities’ discs. And maybe some can thank the record company for making the compilations also available to those who already have the albums (and didn’t want to buy the box sets to get them). I mean, it’s the best of both worlds, right ?
    (Agreed, those compilations could have been much better had them included ALL the non-album tracks !).
    (as a side note, let’s not be unfair towards Paul and the SDE: I really feel that the website is independant and that all opinions are represented, both in the articles and in the comments. Thanks Paul for all the work.)

  38. Luke says:

    I mean, just look at the tracklist of that first CD: only 5 12 inch tracks and that was it ?! Really ?! That disc could be full of 12 inches alone! This is where this “The Other Sides” box goes horribly wrong from the beginning… I haven’t even spoken of different single versions, instrumental versions and B-sides that were missed out first time around… Really laughable this whole project…

    I advice Kate Bush-fans not to buy this inferior product and I advice Parlophone to go back to the drawing board with this 4-CD compilation: scrap this idea, include as much audio as possible for a new 4-CD set and do Kate Bush some justice! And don’t disappoint the decades-long fans … please!

    • Neil McL says:

      So go back to the drawing board and we all buy again! Very Good! I can see it from both sides as although I have them already I got the Remastered Part 2 in the 3-2 Amazon DE for £50 so although didn’t need the rest it’s not so bad. However I didn’t buy from Moscow To Mars and Trails Of Eyeliner and now regret it. Sometimes we get it right sometimes we don’t. If your not happy sel ur box sets on eBay and get the new cd

    • Neil says:

      Looking at the times of these 4 CD’s there is so much space it’s unbelievable. Each disc lasts roughly 32 minutes apart from disc 2 which is 37 minutes. So anybody who thinks this is a bargain at under £20 is fooling themselves as this release should only be two discs. It would have made more sense for them to remaster This Woman’s Work but when did sense ever come in to it ?

  39. Scott says:

    An interesting age old debate and some salient points Paul. In my experience this nearly always happens (DOA excluded). The artist and the record company both would have a say here and there would be a launch and extended marketing plan where often the more unique and sellable content may be individually released later.
    At the end of the day I am just happy to have this output on CD. As a purist however my beef would be why tracks are excluded when there is room especially stand alone tracks. All they would have to do is use a forum like SDE to get feedback here and then you have an invested audience as well. Why recors companies don’t do this more often amazes me

  40. Dennis says:

    Paul you do a great job so thank you very much for it, i hope the music industry watches for feedback.
    My conclusion on this Kate Bush other sides is Parlophone has won this as a money spinner, but my buying will now lessen. The thing is once decided it never returns. I feel i have been taken for a ride so I will try and make sure never again.

  41. Thilo says:

    In my opinion SDE is the best webside for music collectors in the world, Paul is doing such a great job, I check his webside every day! Thanks a lot, Paul!

    Everyone is free to buy stuff or just NOT to buy. I myself collect a lot of bands and musicians, but I gave up years ago to have everything they recorded. I am sure that Queen, Bowie, Peter Gabriel, Neil Young (to name just a few) are interested in my record collection. I love their music, but I know none of them will ask me what to do/release/record next.

    The record compnies are to blame for their releases, and they want to earn money, they sure have no other aims. We -the fans- are their milk-giving cows, they don’t care about us, because the companies want our money, not our opinions.

    In this special case I would like to know if there was any hint on Kate Bush’s Webside, her Management must have known about this release….

    Sorry if my English is too bad, hope you can understand

  42. Dean says:

    Honestly, Paul – you seem to be speaking as part of the marketing exercise, rather than a buyer. You can make excuses for Parlophone (and to use a word you’ve used, it’s naive to think Kate Bush didn’t know what was going to released and when) but I think we’ve all been able to figure out what went on here.

    For example, you write “Of course not telling you something isn’t the same as being specific, but it’s rather naive to expect the record label to lay out reasons why you shouldn’t buy their latest product”. Naive? Hardly. It’s not naive to expect some straightforward honesty, so consumers can make an informed decision. We’re not talking about months and months down the road here. In fact, isn’t the entire point of tyour web site to keep us informed? This is precisely the nub of the problem, one you excuse. You’re entitled to your opinion, but I happen to disagree with it.

    Now, I didn’t buy the second box. The very idea that any of the Aerial and post Aerial work needed a remaster was for me, silly talk. But here’s the really interesting thing. I’ve not bought the first box either. It was very lucklustre when it came to any compelling reason to buy – no booklet, the box art etc. However, if they had put the bonus CD’s in that first box….. I’d of gotten it.

    I think the word I’d use is cynical. It was very cynically done. While we don’t have relationships with labels (something I don’t entirely agree on, I can easily name five labels who I follow avidly to see what they do next) the artists do. The artists sign the licensing deals, and they need to know that this wasn’t okay. I really don’t see any excuse for it. Is this what passes for “marketing” these days? No wonder things are getting worse…. and then to make excuses for it…. amazing.

  43. Sid James says:

    As I find myself working within the music industry at the moment, I can easily explain why we find ourselves in this situation – the record labels are only interested in making MONEY!
    They will only produce these SDE sets if there is a supply of music fans willing to part with their hard earned cash. If they can milk a little more money from an extra set a few months later, they will happily do that. They see the window of opportunity to sell physical product getting smaller as every year goes by, and they will squeeze every last drop of income from you all.

    • Derek Langsford says:

      And I will gladly pay, as long as what is offered has enough to make me want it or provides value from money.

      The Beatles, Marillion, Simple Minds, and TFF sets have hit the mark perfectly (remastered album CD, demo tracks and alternate versions on CD, 5.1 Blu-ray, and separate vinyl); Fleetwood Mac were on the edge (remastered album CD, demo tracks and alternate versions on CD, 5.1 DVDs BUT including a single vinyl LP); but in contrast, Rush missed with their latest bloated boxed sets (remastered albums and bonus material [including some new, commissioned remixes] on CD, all the material repeated on multiple vinyl discs, and 5.1 Blu-rays buried within the sets). The price of entry for the 5.1 mix is far too high.

      Labels try to make the most money from their releases, but some releases fail because of lack of input from fans, and misreading the remaining market. KB Box 1 was good, KB Box 2 was flawed, but the separate release of The Other Sides just adds another complication into what is already a complicated relationship between fans and her releases.

      While I hope SDEs with 5.1 mixes of each album up to and including Aerial are feasible and potentially profitable, they may be a dream, but I also hope that we do get an updated and definitive singles collection and a Blu-ray of restored hi-resolution videos (if can be done), DVDs if not. Her career deserves such a retrospective.

    • Dean O says:

      Of course it’s about money, it’s always about money. I agree with Gareth – sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, you can’t win all the time – that’s just how life is. If the companies that release this material don’t make any money, they disappear and then you end up with nothing.

      I understand why people are upset about this. We’re all precious about our favourite artists.
      I don’t think the same type of people are working for record companies that were around back in the 70’s/80’s/90’s. It seems as if whoever is coming up with the roll out of these releases is far separated from the music itself, to them it’s just another product. They’re not taking the interest or time to consider how the people who would be buying these would perceive things. Maybe this week they’re selling Kate Bush and next week they’re selling oranges…who knows?

      When I first saw the two sets my thought was “wow, they crammed a lot into that first one”….all the way up to and including the Red Shoes leaving not much for the second set but Kate’s most recent albums, the earliest being Aerial/2005 then 50 Words/2011…. Who wants albums remastered that have just come out of the last few years or so (PSB, too). I wouldn’t expect much difference sound wise. So the second set didn’t appeal to me at all except for the b-sides and remixes.

      I would have been happy if the albums up to and including Red Shoes had been two/three cd/vinyl sets. Sure Hounds would be the easiest 2nd disc to fill (…3rd disc set here?) I’m sure they could have been able to find other material to flesh out the others…time/release appropriate live material, b-sides… more live material on the earliest albums, more b-sides/12” material on the later ones.

  44. dazzler says:

    I’m fed up with the permanent good news show on this website. Superdeluxeedition is a very interesting site when you want to keep an eye on forthcoming rereleases of your favourite artists. But so many times record companies make a mess of it. Not concerned about what fans would like to see. Only concerned about the money they can cash. Knowing fans will always buy the product of their idols and knowing the majority of clients doesn’t bother because they lack key information about the artist. But there is not much space on SDE to share critical opinions or disappointment. It seems SDE choses to defend the commercial politics that are behind lots of weird decisions and obvious mistakes of record companies.

    • Paul Sinclair says:

      What the HELL are you talking about? “Not much space on SDE to share critical opinions or disappointment” I read hundreds of comments every week and they are mostly people being critical about something or expressing disappointment!! Allow me to express MY disappointment in YOUR comment which is just plain wrong.

    • Hugh Hall says:

      “Genuine frontier gibberish.”

    • Stuart Ansell says:

      Can I just echo Paul and ask “what the living doughnut are you talking about????”.

      Paul has presented HIS weekly editorial on a subject which is emotive for sure, but has put both sides of the arguement before positing his own well reasoned opinion. Whether you agree with his opinion or not is a moot point, but your attacking of him and SDE is totally out of order – Paul is perfectly entitled to express his opinion in his editorial on his site, and to imply that this is in some way expousing some record company spiel is totally disrespectful. Paul states very clearly that he paid for his box sets, same as everyone else, so his opinions are valid and presented without bias.

      And to say that “there is not much space on SDE to share critical opinions or disappointment”, WHILST POSTING THOSE OPINIONS ON AN OPEN COMMENTS BOARD AFTER BEING INVITED TO DO SO is either irony on a level beyond the whit of mortal man or crass stupidity.

      It also misunderstands the basic idea of this site – it’s a website, not a message board, not Twitter, not your personal forum from which to sound off into the abyss. Paul runs this website to inform about and promote box sets, and it’s by his good grace that the even has a comments section – he’s under no obligation to do so, and you and I have no right to expect one… It’s a courtesy, not a right, and your entitlement speaks volumes.

      Sorry for ranting on Paul, but you do a great job here, and this was totally beyond the pale.

      • Paul Sinclair says:

        Thanks Stuart.

        • Cornelius says:

          Nobody complained when the new remasters were made available separately, which are now generally £6.99 each. I bought the Bowie StationToStation box. Since then the Nassau live album has been released as a stand alone release, along with other subsequent Bowie titles.
          The more this quality stuff is made available, in whatever format, the better.
          They shouldn’t be exclusive to high priced box sets, which are kind-of elite anyway.
          Personally, i’d like to see a comprehensive Kate Bush singles compilation, and accompanying video dvd/blu-ray.

  45. Gareth Pugh says:

    It’s a tricky one this. I’ve found for me, over the past few years, it’s been a case of ‘some you win, some you lose’. I’ve bought sets that either have soon plummeted in price after that, or like this, bought a fuller box when the content I was really after then got a cheaper standalone release. But at other times, I’ve been left very relieved I didn’t hesitate (hello, Erasure’s ‘From Moscow to Mars’ box, or the PSB’s Very Relentless double-CD) or I’d have regretted it – the exclusives on those have largely remained so, in some cases for years and years. I think the best thing to do is, sure, do your best to work out the odds of this sort of thing, but accept that you’ll be lucky sometimes and others not, but it will all level out in the end. And get on with enjoying the music :)

  46. Steve Cawrey says:

    Hi Paul, you say that the video version of The Man With The Child In His Eyes is found on certain L.O.V.E. compilations – do you happen to know which ones they are?

  47. Will Skelton says:

    I’m reminded of the Peter Gabriel So 25th anniversary reissue. I bought the most expensive version, for the concert DVD that was included, and in the knowledge that there were “no plans” to release it separately, according to Gabriel’s people. Lo and behold, it turns up on bluray not long after.

  48. Jason says:

    One problem might have been box 2 being more expensive than box 1. That seemed a bit unbalanced when deciding whether or not to spring for both.

    In reality, this was just TOO MUCH KATE all at one time! Who the hell greenlighted this as a good rollout plan? Staggering releases is always a better idea, especially with this many titles involved. Box 1 should have been out last fall, and box 2 fall of 2019, each with it’s corresponding set of vinyl, and there would have been more sales with a second wave of promotion for box 2, informing those who may have missed box 1 to go back and get that. Now there will be fewer people who even give those titles another passing glance.

    I totally understand what Paul is saying that the label didn’t set out to trick consumers, but there’s also this thing called lying by omission, something our leader in the US has recently cultivated as a talent…

  49. Mikael says:

    I’m happy, I have all her previous albums (on CD), see no need for remastered ones, they still sound great, so getting the opportunity to have all these b-sides, remixes and other hard to find track for as little as around 20 pounds sounds great.
    And those of you who like the remastered deluxe boxes can have that, they’re still available, right?
    I don’t see what’s to complain about.
    I am also a great Bowie fan, but haven’t bought a single one of the latest box sets, I have all the Rykos and a bunch of other compilations, so I don’t see the point, despite packaging, but I hold no grudge against Parlophone for issuing them, people who are new to Bowie surely appreciate it.
    Issues come and go, you pick the ones you like and stay happy with them, you don’t actually have to catch them all ;)

  50. Jon says:

    At the risk of sounding like a whiny get, this marks the end of my long love affair with Kate’s music. Having bought all the CD and vinyl boxes, I feel cheated. There was so much music missing, along with videos, pics, essays. Compare to the Beatles’ White Album set. The whole Kate reissue program seems half-hearted and slap-dash.
    As for the rarities set, hardly took Nostradamus to predict its solo release. Not after seeing the barcode on the back. What frosts me and others is that the set was obviously assembled for vinyl, leaving so much empty space on the CDs. Making a CD match the LP? They didn’t even do that in the 20th century!
    Frankly, there are no good guys here. Sure, Kate is an artist. Does that relieve her of any obligation to consider her loyal listeners? I think not. Whoever was involved in the process, they sure weren’t fans. Worse, they made no effort whatsoever to find out or provide what real fans wanted. The record company, well, we can count on any such business to treat us poorly, or at least attempt to make us poor.
    The whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth, and I doubt I’m alone.

  51. Marco says:

    Two years ago I bought the Dead Or Alive boxset. I could just about afford it and despite a handful of errors and a subsequent CD-resend from the label, I was immensely happy to hear stuff I’d never heard before – and yeah, the reissued albums were a nice reminder of their pop career (not like I didn’t know them like the back of my hand already!). Yet, not everyone could fork out the £120 or so the box cost and I felt for fans who couldn’t, it was a pretty pricey investment. If the label had decided a few months later to issue a ‘rarities’ set for £20 that mimicked the extras on the box set, I think I’d have attempted to see it as a positive thing for those fans and stepped aside to let them enjoy it, not accuse the label of deceiving me.

  52. WILLIAM ENGLAND says:

    Perhaps the Vol.2 box didn’t sell as well as Vol.1 (and from the comments, this does appear to be the case) and they’re trying to shift some of the already pressed cds…

    • Dave Thompson says:

      William England…..they were my thoughts entirely. To be honest, these extra tracks should have been tagged on to the end of the remastered cd’s anyway, not on separate discs. I for one, may well have purchased what would have ended up as being smaller (and hopefully cheaper) box sets.

    • Michael says:

      Absolutely no doubt about it. The fact that nothing was repackaged said it all, and I’ll say it again, as someone pointed out regarding Paul’s unboxing video for the second set, the barcode on this now standalone release was clearly visible.

      I do agree though that, despite the fact this set unquestionably belonged in the first box, it should’ve been made clear this was coming. I know I’d be furious if I’d bought boxset #2 just to get it..

  53. gwynogue says:

    I do think it is all a bit sneaky-deeky…

    Sure, nobody used the word ‘exclusive’…but when the boxsets were released, the individual albums were released separately at the same time. By not releasing “The Other Sides” separately, Parlophone gave the impression – regardless of what was (or in this case wasn’t) said – that “TOS” was box only.

    I think the anger is justified – releasing it as a ‘stand-alone’ four months after all the others looks underhanded and will make some people feel ‘tricked’ into buying an expensive box set they might not have really wanted.

    I know that ‘business is business’, but I also know that an unhappy customer can be more powerful than a satisfied one.

  54. Bunne says:

    2001 A Space Odyssey 50th anniversary has both UHD and a remastered Blu Ray.
    The standalone Blu Ray disc can not be bought. Yet

    I refuse to buy the combi box at £40 to access the Blu Ray remaster. I dont have 4K set up yet

    This double dip practice is as old as the hills.

  55. Philip Cohen says:

    There’s a similar situation with The Rolling Stones video program “Voodoo Lounge in Japan”, a (for now) Japan-only DVD & Blu-ray release of a concert video previoously exclusive to a (now rare) 1990’s Japan-only Laserdisc release. I have (reluctantly) pre-ordered the forthcoming (costly, $82US after shipping) 15th of March Japanese Blu-ray + 2-SHM-CD set, because Universal Music is unwilling to let fans know if the program will eventually be released in other territories. Some online “sleuths” have uncovered documents showing that Universal has submitted “Voodoo Lounge in Japan” for approval by German film classification authorities, but still Universal in Europe won’t reveal if they have any intent to release the program.
    What’s needed is more transparency by the major labels.

  56. Dan says:

    I am a casual Kate Bush fan, and am therefore not particularly interested in obtaining all her recorded output. Having said, what I’d truly love to see is a comprehensive 2 (or even 3) CD set of her very best studio tracks, comprising all the singles and the ‘cream’ of the album tracks. I think KB must be one of the very few contemporary artists who steadfastly refuses to allow her record company to release such a collection. I know The Whole Story was released in 1986, but that was nearly 33 years ago! Even Led Zeppelin, who were renowned for not releasing singles (at least not in the UK) have had at least half a dozen Best ofs make it to market. What is it with Kate Bush that she resists such a release? I think if there was a ‘comprehensive’ collection, it may well prove to be her crowning glory.

  57. Michael says:

    In Paul’s ‘un-boxing’ video of KB’s box set 2 last year, he pointed out that the design of the CD wallets inside the box were inconsistent with box set 1. The visual difference between box set 1 and box set 2 made me suspicious about Parlophone’s marketing strategy.

    Although I was tempted to buy both KB box sets, I decided to hold off on KB2, anticipating that “The Other Sides” would be released as a stand-alone item at some future point. Now, I’m glad I waited :-) Thanks, Paul!

    • Kevin from Edinburgh says:

      This looks to be a case of ‘double-dipping’. As you say, Paul, the company might well have bundled the odds n sods with the later albums as a way of encouraging people – many of whom doubtless already had them – to buy those not-especially-old (i.e., hardly in need of a remaster) albums all over again. Fair enough, I guess. But to then release them separately, less than 6 months later, leaves me with a slightly sour taste in the mouth. No, they never said they were exclusive, but then they said nothing to the effect that they had already decided to release them in the near future either. It’s a company playing on fan’s fears, in my opinion.

      For the record, I bought both boxes, and I wasn’t someone who already had them, so I’ve lost nothing in this, personally. But I will take the opportunity to say that I thought this reissue campaign ought to have been so much better than it was. It was underwhelming. It wasn’t celebratory (maybe there’s no reason why it should be?), but most tellingly for me, didn’t feel special (which I think these things should always be). The slightly disappointing packaging of the first box actually looks fantastic next to the utterly half-arsed effort that went into the second. This latest move only serves to confirm the view that they wanted these things out there, to make some money, but ultimately couldn’t be bothered to put much – if any – thought into it. Just my two penneth, nothing more.

  58. Mick Newsom says:

    Fans will always complain. It’s always about the small things that ONE person wants, then stirs the pot for bandwagon jumpers!

    So it’s really about people having a problem with companies making a return on their investment and not disclosing future plans? Why should they do so? If a reissue doesn’t sell, a) it will become cheaper to buy and b) they’ll rethink their specific reissue strategy.

    The argument for supporting illegal downloading in the early days was that “record companies make a lot of money”. Really? What rubbish was being spouted to support theft and breach of copyright.

    What about car dealerships? Would you go and steal a car because that manufacturer turns a profit?

    If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. If it’s a limited edition it’s your choice but let’s not bash companies contributing to the economy.

    Just fed up with the constant moans everywhere, about everything. It’s the “done me like a kipper” society.

  59. FrenchDuke79 says:

    The thing that amazes me about this whole thing is that Kate herself always seems to get a free pass when it comes to criticism. It’s something you touch upon in the article (loving your work btw) but as someone who is indifferent to Kate’s work (the wife is more of a fan) I’m bemused by this whole debacle. From the lousy packaging, the spelling mistakes, cropped artwork and now this, one thing is assured. Saint Kate never gets both barrels from fans.

    With every box set that comes out there are always a selection of fans who gripe and complain about things. Sometimes that seems justified and sometimes petty but more often than not the fans include the artist/s in this complaining. It’s one of the many things I love about this site. For the supposed amazing artist that Kate is and her perfectionist tendencies there have been a lot of gripes for these releases and, from what I can see, very little annoyance directed at Kate herself.

    Apparently she’s a legendary artist and perfectionist who likes lots of control over her work and it’s legacy. It’s been suggested many times that she doesn’t release new work because of these suggested overly perfectionist tendencies. Are we to be believed that she went to the effort of replacing Mr Harris but didn’t have a say on the release plan, art work or quality control? Maybe. Doesn’t sound like the perfectionist and consummate artist being projected by some fans though. As you say, it must be that dastardly record company. The swines!

    I suspect however that Kate maybe took her eyes of the ball this time and let some people down. Or maybe she just doesn’t care about things like she used to. Maybe she feels uncomfortable with the zealots who project an image of her which she can’t live up to. Maybe she doesn’t make a lot of new music because she has nothing left to say. Maybe the fountain has run dry and she’s a spent force. Maybe she’s just a human being and not a Saint after all.

    Personally I think we do Kate no favours by excluding her from the criticism.

    • I agree with all of this, and would suggest that most of Director’s Cut and 50 Words for Snow reinforce the suggestion that she’s a spent force. There’s nothing wrong with that, insofar as her earlier work is many times more brilliant than lots of others have achieved, but repackaging this later stuff, and not doing it very well, is adding insult to injury.

  60. Dave says:

    That’s life ! Cars . Hi fi . Tvs. cameras . Etc All are subject to be changed at any time. This has happened many times with music it does however rub .!

  61. Geert DW says:

    Kate Bush’s been disappointing me for quite some time now, I regret to say.
    And that’s really very much a pity :(

  62. Nick Love says:

    With a limited music purchasing budget and a busy fall schedule for new releases, I bought the 2nd box as I could only choose one and, while I would have preferred the remasters on the first box, I thought it was more important to snag the rarities as I didn’t have any of them in any form and I already had all of her regular albums in one format or another. I am a bit miffed because had I know this I would have grabbed the first box and held out for the rarities comp.

  63. TRACY says:

    Paul do you know if the box sets are Limited Editions at all and will disappear for good sometime in the future? Your article described Kate Bush in a nutshell. If the record company had stated this CD of rarities would be available separately obviously they would not have sold as many box sets but I don’t feel it was wrong for them not to have told us this at the beginning. If I had bought the box sets I may feel differently, but just by ordering this CD of rarities I feel like I am missing something (the box sets). I feel like I need the whole package. People who bought the sets should not feel hard done by, they have the whole lot already.

  64. Regan Judson says:

    I think Paul hit the nail on the head when he pointed out the lack of the term “exclusive” anywhere in the release campaign. We’ve gotten so used to being forced to buy the “big box” in order to get the rarities, that most of us just assumed that was the case here. Yes they could have been more forthcoming with specific release information but they are trying to sell product. I’m just happy we are still getting sets like this at all. I only owned vinyl copies of a couple early LP’s and 12″ singles so these sets happened to be perfect for me. At least it wasn’t released in 10 Different cover art variants or with different etchings on the vinyl enticing folks to purchase this ten times over!

  65. Sheldon Cole says:

    Or they may always have been banking on the premise that most KB fans are completists and would buy the 2nd CD box set and also the standalone raretiee release.

    • Klaus says:

      @Sheldon Cole:

      That would be really weird, even for a completist, ‘cos if i understand Paul’s posts about this correctly the stand-alone release of the Rarities-cds will be the absolute same version that is included in the second Remastered-box.

  66. Shane says:

    For those who say that you know they always release separately afterwards…. try telling that to Dead Or Alive fans :)

    • Michael says:

      Cherry Red are releasing a compilation of Inevitable recordings including many by Dead or Alive. There was plans & work was being done for more reissues however as Steve Coy sadly died these were put on hold. Lynne Burns said the music is in storage in both uk & Italy. But it will happen eventually.

  67. Robert says:

    I have been waiting with my purchase of both CD box sets. It has been an expensive last month last year with the releases of The Beatles, John Lennon and Jimy Hendrix. So I am waiting for a price drop on both box sets from Kate Bush. Another reason that I have been waiting is that I would have two copies of the live album “Before The Dawn”. In my opinion this album should not have been included in the second box set.

    You can buy all of her remastered albums separately. And that is why I am happy with the decision by Parlophone to release “The Other Sides” as a standalone 4 CD set.

    Although I still doubt if I should not go for the box set …

  68. Johnny West says:

    “Red Shoes” was actually in box 1, and “Aerial” (double CD) in box 2. And who wouldn’t want the remastered versions of these original albums (OK, so “Aerial” is slightly different) and the box? The uproar of the stand-alone rarities argument seems pretty asinine.

  69. adam shaw says:

    I’m one of those who looks up to my shelf and sees only box 1 of these sets . Reason being I’m sick of forking out for something I’ve already got . Only up to recently I was a completist but now I’ve stopped. Just feel like my artists are ripping me off now (especially Macca and Bowie for multiple same live albums in his boxes ) and unless it’s something I’ve always wanted I’m not going to buy another copy of a farly new disc again . So I welcome this release (I do have a lot of the tracks on it but not remastered) and sympathize with my fellow collectors who have been a bit ripped off .

  70. Shane says:

    Of course it’s marketing. Very clever to boot. But nobody is disputing the why. Nobody gives. The bottom line is they deliberately omitted to disclose they would sell these separately to shift copies of the very less-than-desirable second box. It is a ROTTEN move and a slap in the face to fans. Nothing less. Im glad i kissen my hard collecting goodbye and didnt buy those horrible-looking boxes.

  71. Chris Squires says:

    As I said yesterday “Damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t”.

    I will defend Kate ’til the cows come home she is a rare bird indeed, a true artist, pioneer and originator, some might say a female Bowie in some parameters at least.

    Personally, as with most modern things, I blame the internet and forums like this that lead us to believe that everything must be detailed just for our personal edification and anything that slips outside our own desires and advantage must be wrong in some way. As someone says yesterday, they feel “duped”. Well that goes for everything, from, as Paul says car companies, Toblerones and the size of Fairy Liquid bottles. Everything we buy is a risk, will something better be around the corner? Every transaction with Amazon is a gamble based on…”will this drop further or should I wait…. but then it might go up or it might become unavailable” and we don’t seem capable of dealing with defeats, however small. People make angry posts because something they bought on Amazon went down a couple of quid a week after launch but conveniently forget the time that it worked in their favour when Amazon got a pre-launch price wrong, it quickly went up but they still honoured the initial low, incorrect price.
    Someone posted yesterday that they were “Bloody Furious” at this KB decision and yet above and below that post were people saying “Brilliant, order in”.
    I’m mildly annoyed that MoV are releasing a third version of Collected by Marvin Gaye and will just be replacing one of the two blue vinyl records with a red one. Thus shagging the value of my limited edition blue copy from only two years ago. Ho-hum. Swings and roundabouts.
    The internet feeds off anger. Let it starve.

  72. Tony Ward says:

    Hi & thanks for your comments. It would still be nice though to get an explanation as to why certain B-sides & remixes are still missing – especially when there’s CD space available for them.

  73. Don says:

    Physical sales are down, record company’s complain.
    Guess what, these kind of business decisions don’t help at all.
    They could have made the box-set excluding extra material and explain to the fans/customers a lot of work is going on to release an amazing collection of extra’s for sale in the near future. It would have shown class. It would have shown trust.

  74. Steve says:

    You can now buy all the individual CD’s in Part 2 for £57.69 on Amazon, if you paid £95 for the box set you are going to be mightily aggrieved.

  75. Steve W says:

    Speaking as someone who just can’t afford the deluxe version and has everything by Kate in one form or other I reluctantly passed on the special editions. But a one-off release of rarities? Well that is an easy decision for someone like me. Do I feel sorry for those who did buy the boxsets? Yes, obviously, but I bet there a lot of people in the same boat as me.

  76. Mark C says:

    “…were now confronted not only with a £20 standalone version, but a ‘better’ one with some extra tracks!”

    Wait, is there content on this set that isn’t in the second CD set?

  77. Simon Thornhill says:

    For me it’s par for the course, I do understand folks frustration when this sort of thing happens. But let’s be honest with ourselves, is anybody really that surprised! Really?!!!.

    For what it’s worth, it’s the price of being an “early adopter / collector” There’s always going to be a two tier system i.e premium releases with “exclusives”, followed by standard versions.

    What’s equally puzzling to me is, why include Before The Dawn? It’s still widely available on cd. And in no need of a reissue this early on. ( Other than sorting out the damp sounding mix , that for me loses alot of the frankly insane atmosphere of the live performance.)

    Personally I’m (not so secretly) hoping for the remastered CDs to be issued in Japan. I gotta have my OBI Strips goddamnit!!!!

    I purchased the first three vinyl box sets + cd box 1. So I will happily pick up the stand alone 4xcd rarities set. But I get why folks who payed for Boxset two on cd are pissed off!

  78. Alan says:

    It isn’t up to Parlophone is it? The second box is entirely hers apart from a few 1980 tracks on the rarities discs. This decision would surely have been up to her company?

    • Paul Sinclair says:

      Both boxes were issued by Parlophone. The idea that they just put out what they were given, without detailed discussions about product formats, marketing, manufacturing and so on, is rather improbable.

      • Alan says:

        Yeah but we all know this is most likely her decision. They can’t release anything without her permission. I don’t think Parlophone is credited on the second box at all, or the rarities set. They are on the first box because of the first three albums. But yes, it must have been discussed and agreed in advance that they would do this.

        I’m happy for those that didn’t buy the second box and can now just get this. And you did point out yesterday that it was never mentioned that the rarities were exclusive to the box.

        I agree that adding more rarities for this standalone release would have been an even worse scenario. At least no one has to buy it twice. And let’s face it, if anyone really did buy the second box just for the rarities then they can obviously afford to. No one was pointing a gun at their heads making them do it, it was their choice (and indeed, mine).

  79. Stevo says:

    If you notice too Amazon are clever at pricing it a £19.95 (5p below free delivery in the UK), so the package entails a big delivery charge.

    I agree with Paul, it’s the compilers fault this package is lame with tracks, the first disc has space to add a few juicy tracks (but that should have been done on the initial released box sets, adding tracks to each album disc).

    I’ll buy this too as am a KB completist … so the marketeers have won the day I guess …

  80. Nigel Day says:

    I still miss The Empty Bullring ☹️

  81. Auntie Sabrina says:

    Yes Philip, they could have done that, Yazoo did with their recent ‘vinyl only’ Three Peices.

  82. Philip Birtwistle says:

    Just maybe they have listened to the fans who complained that they wanted to buy the set on its own and acted. Just saying…………..

    • Joe says:

      That’s what I thought. Anyway I think people just assumed they were only available on the boxset but we were never specifically told that.

      • eric slangen says:

        @Dazzler, I really don’t know what you are talking about?
        Everyone on this site can give his or hers respectful opinion.
        But also Paul may give his own opinion even if you don’t like it.
        You can write your complaint to Parlophone but don’t attack this site.
        Paul had several issues (remember the Peter Gabriel box / the Macca box with only digital bonustracks etc) with the artist itself or the record company. Sometimes he got a result but our opion was heard by the recordcompanys/artist. What more do we want?
        And sometimes you have luck with those LIMITED editions and they are really LIMITED but sometimes not. The big Queen limited colored vinyl box is now on his 3rd repress. haha.
        I have got lots and lots of bargains through this site and I love it.
        But if you want a site with only complaints I suggest you start one yourself.

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